Ashley: Hey everyone for TRICHOMES.com I'm Ashley Manning and this is Careers in Cannabis. On this show we sit down with staffing agencies, cannabis companies and other industry professionals to discuss employment opportunities in the burgeoning Cannabis industry. The cannabis industry jobs are booming and being deemed essential as it makes it a safe haven for those who were laid off during the pandemic. Those who went from hospitality into cannabis are even saying that they will stay in the cannabis industry and not return to their former job and just in the past few months more states have legalized, which means the staffing demand will be increasing. If you've been considering a new career or more specifically a career in cannabis then this is the episode for you. Today's guest has been a recruiter for over 20 years and he's founded two staffing agencies and is currently seeking to place immediate candidates in the cannabis industry. On this episode we talk with Joshua Cartagenova the founder of the nationwide cannabis and hemp recruitment firm Calyx Staffing. Hey Josh, welcome to the show. 

Josh: Oh wonderful, thank you very much for the time. 

Ashley: It's great to have you here. I know we've had you as a guest last year and that was right when the pandemic started and now we're kind of going back to a semi-normal life. So I'm excited to talk to you about the opportunity. Maybe what has changed from the last time you were on the show to a year later. But, for those who miss that previous episode I’d love for you to start off with sharing a little bit about Calyx Staffing. How long have you been staffing the cannabis industry and why you got into staffing the cannabis industry specifically. 

Josh: Well that's a great way to start actually. Well we started Calyx Staffing is a staffing organization for the cannabis and hemp industry and we work nationwide. It was started back in 2018 and I'm an entrepreneur, I have another staffing company called Therapy Source which I have had for the past 20 years which provides therapists to schools and we've been running that and as a professional in the staffing industry. I saw the growth of cannabis, no pun intended, in with the need of additional help and C levels and managers in formulating these new companies as new licenses started to develop and states to open up their doors to cannabis, I saw a huge need and hence being the entrepreneur I am, that’s who I am and over two years ago I started Calyx Staffing.

Ashley:  So 2018. What was the first state that you fulfilled a job in because 2018 things were just really starting to ramp up?

Josh: The first one that was actually in Massachusetts. Massachusetts opened up for medicinal and also recreational as well. And currently, the east coast is like the new west coast now Jersey just opened up and also New York. So typically what happens is Pennsylvania will start to open up and all these east coast and what we're seeing now is a lot of our west coast clients are either expanding to east coast but also the talent is very interested in going over to the east coast as well. So a lot of our placements are people that were picking up from the west coast and moving over to the east coast at this point. 

Ashley: Yeah. It’s you can take that industry knowledge that you've learned in the states and help the newer states come on board. I have to say there's much different work ethic between east coast and west coast for sure. I don't know if that's something you've ever noticed but there's just a different way I've seen. I'm from the east coast and when I moved out here was a little bit of a transition but I feel coming from the west coast to the east coast could be interesting as well. I don't know if you even want to put your opinion on that but it might take some time for people to get used to.

Josh: Yeah. Well listen the east verses west is a whole different cultural feel and on the east coast where we're highly metropolitan cities, you got New York, you got Philadelphia, you got the starting of America on the east coast. So yeah I think generally we're probably a little faster moving. We definitely want what we want and it is a whole different feel and west coast listen, whenever I get down to the California area I love I love that kind of feel in culture that you guys have over there. 

Ashley: Yeah, culture is important also into the cannabis industry. Where is Calyxes Staffing headquartered?

Josh: We're right outside of Philadelphia and we work nationwide and being that you can be remote and you can still contact your candidates, doesn't require offices all throughout the United States. And so this is obviously where I live and my team lives here so it's good centered and obviously with the east coast development it helps as well.

Ashley: A hundred percent right there. I think this goes and just going to take off way faster than the west coast and it seems obvious is it going in that direction. Roughly, how many people have you've currently placed into cannabis specific jobs since you've started? 

Josh: That's an interesting question. 

Ashley: You lost track. 

Josh: Well listen the idea here is we really need to focus on the clients' needs at this point. The number of people we have done just many over the number of years we've been in business and we're a specialist in this area. And what I found out when I started developing the company is that many of the other competitions in this space were started by people that were not staffing professionals. So my team is of staffing professionals with multiple years of staffing. Now, to people that may not be in the staffing world or staffing industry might not mean much but there is a lot to say about when you're able to talk to an individual from staffing because there's a certain type of insight that we have, I've been staffing for over 20 years and running these two companies. So in interviewing candidates, you understand that you're looking at a resume which is only a marketing piece for the individual. So it's up to the individual with that staffing experience to be able to dive deeper and ask the open-ended questions and not the yes or no questions. These open-ended questions really start to highlight areas of their are pros and what I call AFI's, areas for improvement. That's what you're able to take back and at least present to a client and let them know that Johnny has these particular pros and these things that I think maybe work with you or you may have to develop. But it's being in this type of Industry not just the cannabis industry but the staffing industry and having this knowledge set which makes us successful. And that's a really important part because that's really one of the main reasons why I decided to start this second company is because of the fact that much of our competition we're not staffing professionals and that was two years ago. So now I see as the industry is developing, Calyx Staffing is actually one of these pioneers in this area. There’s only a few companies actually started but now over the past two years I've seen many other organizations and staffing organizations starting to get into this field. And that's that's comforting because we're only here to help the industry grow. We want to make sure that people that we place in these organizations are long-term employees. And it's about professionals like that understand staffing that are able to make that possible. 

Ashley: Make sense, make sense. Well, I'm excited for the growth of Calyx Staffing over the years being and an OG on the east coast with staffing. So let's shift gears and talk about what opportunities you currently have available at Calyx. 

Josh: A lot of our opportunities are located right on our website which is calyxsttaffing.com and they change often. We have many different types of positions, we have a Chief Science Officer in the North Carolina area and you obviously need a science background and understanding lab and techniques and strains. And that's a very exciting kind of C level position. Always get sales, sales positions are just because clients many of our clients are in their infancy. Now if it's to the fact that they have their funding, they maybe started their grow, they have product and they have to sell it. So with the idea of sales from sales managers to sales representatives to Directors of Sales to VP’s that's a big push because the market itself is highly competitive. As each of these MSO’s start to get more particular licenses and even if you're not an MSO, you’re a small organization that seems to have a license from the state. The need and the competition is fierce and it's only going to get more fierce and what's been happening over the past couple of years as you probably seen Ashley is the competition that is actually buying these licenses. There is a case in point. I have a friend that about three years ago got a license in the Pennsylvania area and they were bought out by GTI Green Thumb Industries even before they even opened. So these licenses are extremely valuable and what's happening in some states. Some states like Oregon and some other states have put too many licenses into the marketplace which obviously makes it less valuable. So you have other particular markets depending on how they're going to provide these licenses or the number of licenses that they're going to provide in the state that's determining their value in that particular state. So at the end of the day the main point is that it’s going to be just like the internet was in the late 1990s, there were a huge number of those dot-coms. You're going to have the organizations that just go out of business, you'll have the organizations that will get gobbled up or acquired and they’ll be eventually these number of large players, like the Tilray’s of the world and the Canopies of the world. These are the large organizations that are going to be highly successful as this industry starts to develop. So it's a very exciting time in this industry. 

Ashley: Absolutely, I'd like to touch upon the sales aspect of things because yes it's competitive and we mentioned earlier about people moving from the west coast to the east coast. Well, if I were a recruiter, I'm not but I would be thinking I want sales people that already have a book contacts. Do you personally feel that if someone doesn't have contacts and they're a great salesperson, they've shown you their quotas that they've met in other Industries, do you think that actually parlays into cannabis sales? 

Josh: If I understood the question, right? You're asking, is there a preference for individuals that are already in the industry? Is that what you're saying?

Ashley: Someone who does not have industry experience but they have shown that they are great salespeople. 

Josh: Right, right. What I'm finding out here in this industry is that you do have certain clients that do prefer. However, a lot of our clients actually want to just hire incredible sales people. It’s just like any type of if you decided to go work with IBM, okay and you are a sales rep for IBM and you are a stellar sales individual, you'd have to learn that product anyway. So it's about how well you're able to develop relationships and what your past has been, what has your been success rate in the past and these are the questions that we ask in part of our interview process. We utilize a theory called BAT which is Behavioral Actions and Techniques. So we take our candidates through this particular level of understanding to dive deep and find exactly about their core strengths. I always recommend that we do not focus strictly on people from the cannabis industry. Lots of times when you're getting industry to industry, there's always benefits to that but there's also benefits of just getting an incredible sales person that can learn the products, develop the relationships and be stellar even more stellar than the individual that may have the contacts. Because you don't know exactly what you're going to unwrap at that point. And this also promotes the growth of the industry which is what we're all trying to do here. With the podcast and the other things that TRICHOMES does and Calyx Staffing with the idea of just expanding it. What is the best with the best type of candidates that we can find in the marketplace? So to answer your question in a long verbose way we have clients on both sides and we try to inform our clients of the benefits of let's keep it open. Look for people that are in the industry and will look for people that are outside the industry and you'll be able to make some determination on what's best for your culture. What's best for your organization? What's best for your growth plans? 

Ashley: Yeah, I think it would be hard if I was hiring to pick between which person, the qualified sales person with no experience or the person who has a very large Rolodex of buyers and relationships in the industry. It would be hard to differentiate between the two but like you said the growth of the industry is the overall mission and by bringing people outside of the industry in and we're growing it. So are you able to share a few other jobs? You have I'd like for our listeners to hear some of the opportunities.

Josh: Yeah. Well we have a Director of Cultivation in the Boston area and that seems to be because of these new licenses and new grows that we're getting a lot of Director of Cultivation type positions coming through. It's exciting because I know this client is developing another grow in Massachusetts and expanding fast. Really a lot of our clients are expanding rather fast and they're open to individuals for remote, I mean, for individuals in the west or in a particular cannabis like state that they can bring the information over and that's an exciting position. What we really focus on is really from our entry level, managers, sales positions all the way up to C levels. We also get involved with the licensing process and the licensing process is a very interesting kind of function here for us because part of the license depends on the state they are required to have their directors and C levels listed on the application. And so, we work with some licensing organizations that fulfill that entire license. We provide the people and they get their license and at that point they have the option of taking that job or not. It's a very interesting type of process but we really enjoy that kind of level where we're able to fulfill, find the higher C level and director level for these companies. And you get to see just how the license starts and develops and it comes to fruition, it's exciting stuff.

Ashley: I could imagine finding an executive C-level executive when you have a vision if you're waiting on your license, getting your license selling an executive. Hey we want you as our CEO or VP and here's what you're going to do and you're selling them on a vision. Is that a difficult sale as a recruiter? 

Josh: Well you know yes and no because part of that process is there's no guarantee of the license. So what the individual is getting at that point is they're giving and getting an opportunity in the opportunity that may come, a month down or two months down the line once they're approved. If they don't get approved there's no harm at this point but if they get approved they have that option so that company would go to that the C level that we've placed there and say okay great got our license you want to come on board. At that point what it does for the candidate is it gives them opportunities. So whether they're awaiting for a job or there between jobs or they're at a current situation that they don't see as a huge benefit because a lot of these new companies will give you stock options or some type of additional benefits that maybe some of the other organizations won't give you. That's developing rather fast on the benefit side as well. Getting qualified individuals licences because it's kind of like and we're yes this could be a job in a might not be a job but if this came to be and this is the information about the organization, this be of interest and so we still go through our qualification process and like and they go through the interview process and everything else like a traditional staffing process and but they have a choice and that choice, if you think about if you had that choice to being a Director of Marketing in two months and you're currently a job. Now, you have that ability and at the end of the day, it's more choices the better. So it’s a good and fun type of placement for us.

Ashley: Agree to touch on the Director of Cultivation position is there cannabis experience required?

Josh: When it's something as technical as Director of Cultivation and sales positions are a little bit different but the more science you get into a position there is a leading kind of requirement for someone who's done a grow. So if you want to become a director of cultivation you'd have to start as a cultivator and become an assistant cultivator to the cultivation manager and move your way up through. We have never placed someone that was a cultivator of vegetables or what have you put them directly into cannabis. Now the learning aspect of that and that difference from what I hear is not that significant, it's because you're still going to get whether you're cultivating vegetables or cultivating cannabis, you're still going to get your molds, still get your insects or still get these certain things that eat that or can cause damage. So, it's about learning but it's your kind of question through my experience or Calyx experience most of the placements that we've made for that level and have been with previous cannabis experience. 

Ashley: Gotcha. That would make sense or you can compare someone who's been a director of cultivation for other fruits and vegetables and pair them with fantastic cultivator who can just teach them the process of what they need to be doing, then they that that cultivator can go on to the next facility to grow and teach that person. And I think the cultivators most important person in this industry combined with everyone else as well but I think cultivation because it starts there. You can't have anything else without the plant. 

Josh: Right you got strains development and it's highy exciting. It's not in my wheelhouse but  one of the directors of cultivation. it's a very obviously important role because that you're at your main individual that's going to really determine the potency and in all the main important aspects of the plant. So if you are ready for sale, Right.Right? 

Ashley: I had started my career in cannabis as a cultivation intern and I don't see that anywhere. I don't know if I got lucky. I'm not sure if it was who I knew but I don't see that anywhere. Do you see that happening anywhere?

Josh: Cultivation intern? 

Ashley: Yeah.

Josh: Now we typically don't get those internships but I'm sure there's probably a lot because all the cannabis schools are out there and cannabis programs. Yeah, if you take a look at some of the universities they're starting these cannabis programs. I know many schools in New Jersey are at this point and then you have your traditional cannabis schools. Ohio and throughout a lot of its online or you can actually go there. But with this type of industry of how it's moving and transferring and developing I know Syracuse University just opened up a program as well. More and more colleges have an idea of cannabis development and the industry itself. It's an amazing start to an industry because if you think about and I always bring this up because I'm 49 years old but the internet that was new and are there internet programs, college accredited programs out there for the internet? I guess there's computer science and that is part of internet? I don't know, maybe it doesn't make any sense but the point is that with the growth of this industry that colleges and universities are really getting an idea that this could be an opportunity for them to start providing some skilled individuals out in the workforce. 

Ashley: Absolutely I look forward to every school offering a cultivation program, it's very important. My favorite question that I always love to ask is what would be some big brother advice that you would give someone who's considering a Career in Cannabis? I think there is a there's a big brother/big sister aspect to wanting people to know the reality of working in the industry and what it's like. Do you have any big brother advice? 

Josh: Well, yes I do. I'd recommend anyone that wants to get into the industry. First of all, make sure that your resume is up to date and make sure it has the basics. No spelling mistakes, formatted correctly. I can't tell you how many people have sent me resumes that I just can't even send to a client. And so, just understand the formatting and there's organizations out there that can help you format resumes. One that could be sent easily digitally that can be parsed into a system that's really important to do. And then also make sure that whatever the position that you're applying for make sure it has the flow and it has the qualitative and quantitative aspects that really pop out on a page. This is becoming more competitive so if there is a Director of Cultivations we're getting multiple resumes for these positions. So what makes it easy for employers and also staffing agencies is making sure that you have maybe a summary at the top of things that apply to that position. Not so general but to that of position. So depending on what you're trying to apply for you may have to change that little bit and customize it and that will place you into a good pile if we're talking about paper but into the good stack to least review. Follow-up, that's number two, always follow up, you send a resume and you need to follow up with the employer. Okay? And what I call is get a story and the story is, “yes, I received your resume and will be making decisions three weeks from now”, great. You follow up at that point But if you just hope just send a resume and wait and sit by the phone, that's not going to work. So making sure that you're proactive in your search and understand that the hiring manager has multiple to look through but they're going to look at the individuals that are driven, that are focused in that have the skill set to be able to be that next position that they're hiring for. Because we're in the era of the time of Zoom, understand how you need to present yourself professionally on a zoom call, make sure that your lighting is fine, make sure that the vocals are fine, make sure that you're dressed appropriately according to what the organization may culturally be, okay. So you may have to do some research, research the organization. Go to their website to see if you see any other additional information about the pros and cons of the organization, go to LinkedIn see about how many people that are actually part of that organization and you can do some name-dropping of people that you've connected to and already reached out to, “I'm applying for the director of cultivation do you have any insights? can you help me out?” So there's the in the age of the internet and the access to information that we have just approaching a particular smart and intelligent way because it's going to give you that information that heads up information. There's nothing that employers like better for you to be able to recite some information about what they've learned on the internet because what you're saying is that I have taken time to learn about your company. It is very important for me to understand what I'm getting into and it’s very important for you to learn about me and how I may be a match for your culture and for your environment at XYZ company and by just doing some of those simple steps in taking those extra steps, puts you at that top of the level and top of the stack and that's really where you want to be. 

Ashley: All fantastic big brother advice. I would be listening to you and doing your homework on the company you're applying to is really important and I'm sure it's probably annoying to get applicants and you're like this don't even apply. You can tell the person sent out their resume to a whole bunch of people. I think, this is my opinion that people get excited about working in the cannabis industry and I've heard it time and time again, I can't wait to work in the industry because I want to smoke weed all day and so some people just don't get it. So this big brother advice is very helpful for those who are on the fence and think that is what you do all day when you work in cannabis. 

Josh: Ashley, one other thing too is that I found maybe this is a human type of quality but when you have a resume and you have experienced some approach it to the fact that they would be lucky to have me. Okay, so what you need to do in my recommendations is put your ego aside, this is not about ego. This is about a skill set and that you're able to do that job to the level that they want you to do the job. So ego has no area for this type of industry no matter what your background is because you don't really need to go to show it through an ego you'll be able to show it through your stories. You'll be able to show it through your successes and if you're a salesperson you'll be able to show it saying Iwas given a quota of a million dollars. I was able to get a hundred percent of quota and this is what I was selling. These are the areas that I had to go through these types of mountains that I had to climb in order to do that. So it's so it's showing grit and it's showing that you're going to work hard if you can actually show that in an interview on how hard you're going to work and how smart you are in this particular business, whether sales or cultivation or extraction or even a C level, those are things that the hiring manager we really appreciate and really make note of.

Ashley: Great advice, great advice. Where do you anticipate the market going in the next we'll say the remainder of the year, where do you think we're going to be as an industry by the end of the year?

Josh: Now that we're kind of post COVID or almost post COVID, I’ll have to ask Dr. Fauci on that one. But a lot of the licenses were stalled through this process. So we're finding a lot of the states are now moving forward on approving these licenses. We are still waiting for New Jersey and Georgia paused there so there were a lot of different states that kind of paused the entire process because it's a government process and without government workers there's no approval of licenses. Now with the Biden ministration and the support for the cannabis industry and also the Safe Banking Act that is supposed to go to Congress soon. This industry is just going to be growing, it's going to be growing significantly. I see the east most really booming. I see additional acquisitions from the large MSO’s. I see individuals that have licenses that don't know how to run companies going out of business. So there's going to be a lot of movement going around in this entire industry which makes it very positive for the employee marketplace and for the candidates that are looking for particular jobs. Just have to see how things kind of transpire and move and develop over these next couple months. And we're really excited here at Calyx Staffing for this because now we it's just each day you can more and more support for the industry and with any kind of support from the government and states and this will enable for more companies to develop more companies to develop. As they delope they are going to need staff and in a highly competitive marketplace. That's why they go to staffing organizations because typically you just can't put a job on Indeed and start getting your diamond. That's typically not how it works. 

Ashley: It's better to pay now for finding that right match versus you've spent three to six months with an employee realizing that they're not a good fit when probably if you had a staffing person who does this professionally choose that person for you might actually have worked out in your favor and you didn't waste your time and money. 

Josh: Yeah with Calyx Staffing we have a we have a Calyx Staffing and guarantee so takes a lot of risk off the table and then you're actually able to have an individual company that is able to qualify them and do all the background checks and therefore they could run their business and we can least be able to present great candidates for them to hire. And so far our rate is that all of our candidates have stayed which is great.

Ashley: Oh, that's wow, that's fantastic. That’s good news for Calyx Staffing, that's something then that's a company that would want to listen to so make sure you're listening out there to and visiting calyxstaffing.com. 

John: That’s calyxstaffing.com.

Ashley: Calyxstaffing.com thank you. See I'm to be asking you.

Josh: That’s calyxstaffing.com, you can apply there and you can get information on our positions and everything else that you may need and contact us and give us a call or email us. 

Ashley: Awesome, well thank you so much Josh for your time and Calyx Staffing for your time as well and I look forward to having you back as this industry grows. We're not going anywhere you're not going anywhere. It's only about to get really busy over the next few years. So thank you so much. 

Josh: Ashley thank you so much for the time and for the wonderful questions and hopefully this was of value to your listeners. 

Ashley: Absolutely. Thank you so much Josh, bye.